Financial Controller opportunity

Nick
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Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Nick » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:34 am


Nonsense Potter
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FAO Stu

Post by Nonsense Potter » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:07 pm

It’s your time to step up Stuart!
Scorer of possibly the greatest goal in the history of the Woking FC Supporters' team

NeilC
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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by NeilC » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:10 pm

Stu in charge of finance with jonwoozely's magic money tree providing the cash

What could go wrong?

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by oakie » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:35 pm

NeilC wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:10 pm
Stu in charge of finance with jonwoozely's magic money tree providing the cash

What could go wrong?
Just need Shahid's magic calculator and jobs a good 'un

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Re: FAO Stu

Post by Stuwfc » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:38 pm

Nonsense Potter wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:07 pm
It’s your time to step up Stuart!
In a round about way I may already have ! That is all

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by DesCartes » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:23 pm

NeilC wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:10 pm
Stu in charge of finance with jonwoozely's magic money tree providing the cash

What could go wrong?
A Viv Nicholson for the 21st century

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by wokingsteve » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:12 pm

I thought this was an advert for Postman Pat.

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by jonwoozley » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:09 pm

Anyone with the surname Davis or Elmer need not apply, there's nothing left to sell off!
Dual meditates,
Non habetis argentum.

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Nonsense Potter » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:36 pm

jonwoozley wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:09 pm
Anyone with the surname Davis or Elmer need not apply, there's nothing left to sell off!
You’re going to have to talk us through this latest one.
Scorer of possibly the greatest goal in the history of the Woking FC Supporters' team

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Chobham Card » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:26 pm

Nonsense Potter wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:36 pm
jonwoozley wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:09 pm
Anyone with the surname Davis or Elmer need not apply, there's nothing left to sell off!
You’re going to have to talk us through this latest one.
Can he not?

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Nonsense Potter » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:49 pm

I’d rather he did. He’s had an issue (that he doesn’t understand) with Jon Davies for years, but naming Paul Elmer (who I personally think has given up more time as a volunteer for the club than anyone I can think of, over a huge number of years) is just out of order.
Scorer of possibly the greatest goal in the history of the Woking FC Supporters' team

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Insider » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:58 pm

Nonsense Potter wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:49 pm
I’d rather he did. He’s had an issue (that he doesn’t understand) with Jon Davies for years, but naming Paul Elmer (who I personally think has given up more time as a volunteer for the club than anyone I can think of, over a huge number of years) is just out of order.
Agreed

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by jonwoozley » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:32 pm

Nonsense Potter wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:49 pm
I’d rather he did. He’s had an issue (that he doesn’t understand) with Jon Davies for years, but naming Paul Elmer (who I personally think has given up more time as a volunteer for the club than anyone I can think of, over a huge number of years) is just out of order.
That is fair comment. There is no doubt that everyone who has given their time and money to the club deserves some respect and had good intentions. What I question is their ability to make the correct choices. I will give it some context in quotes:


“The club is required to make a total capital contribution of £100,000 towards the works and has a period of seven years from 1st January 1996 in which so to do.” “the club has granted a Charge over the ground to the Council. Should the Club default in respect of the agreed terms, then circumstances may arise in consequence of which the freehold of the ground would be transferred to Woking Borough Council.”
Jon Davies, Vice Chairman, February 1996

“Last year’s budget was fixed on a break-even gate attendance of 3,100, but the average league gate is only around 2,500 – 2,600.”
Terry Molloy, Vice-Chairman, April 1997

“I [John McGovern] was out of work! There was a manager’s job here, so I applied for it. … I decided to accept the post, but I was still surprised to get it!” Non-League Monthly, August 1997

“The acid test is the Conference performances. We’re not interested in cups, it’s the league performances I’m interested in”
John McGovern, Manager, Non-League Monthly, October 1997

“I have agreed a new two-year contract with the club … I am determined to repay this show of loyalty by producing a winning side that we can be proud of.” John McGovern, Manager, February 1998

“As you all know, John McGovern no longer has a managerial role at the club. Jon Davies, Chairman, September 1998

“Other duties relate to the management of the club’s investments which include the sites of the Chris Lane Tennis Club, the Woking Gym Club and the Woking Snooker Centre. At the top of my list of further improvements to Kingfield is the completion of Phase Two of the planned redevelopment. If there is anyone with a few million to donate to the project please let me know.” Paul Elmer, Property Director, August 1998

“In the year ending 31st May 1997 the turnover here at Woking was in the region of £1.3 million. As we all know we enjoyed a good run in the FA Cup and won the FA Trophy. Last year, with no successes in the two major cup competitions, our turnover fell to £80,000. A drop of half a million pounds in spite of the fact that our attendances were actually up on the season before.”
“Phase II, under the terms of the agreement with the council, cannot go ahead until we achieve Football League status” Bill Sutton, Finance Director, September 1998

“I wouldn’t say our financial situation is particularly brilliant, but we are okay. But we do rely too much on gate receipts.” “we need to generate funds off the pitch. We need to increase that side of it, especially the commercial activities and fundraising” John Taylor, Chairman, November 1999

“at last Wednesday night’s EGM at Woking FC shareholders gave the go-ahead for the sale of freehold land next to Kingfield Stadium to Woking Borough Council. … the Council will buy the freehold land currently occupied by the Chris Lane Leisure Club”
“There will be an initial sum of £200,000 up front followed by a further sum, … That amount will depend on negotiations between the Council and Chris Lane over the extension of the current lease – which presently has 45 years to run. It is understood that this second tranche of money will be around £200,000.”
“Property Director Paul Elmer was said to have introduced the motion on the club’s freehold” Clive Youlton, Journalist, March 2000

“The sale of the freehold of the Chris Lane Tennis Club to Woking Borough Council was completed on Monday 20th March and negotiations between the Council and Chris Lane (Grasspost Ltd) in respect of a possible extension of the lease will commence shortly.”
Paul Elmer, Property Director, March 2000

“I think everyone believed it was a good deal and the only way forward. What is important is we learn the lessons of the past two years” John Taylor, Chairman, March 2000


This is not a witch-hunt, it is highlghting mistakes so that they are not repeated. I have seen this club slowly build from a village team that could barely beat Westfield, to become the best team in non-league football.
I then saw that dismantled with some very stupid, naive and desperate decisions. We will never get that chance again, we are punching at our maximum now.

What worries me now is that the club was one win away from the play-offs on the pitch - while all off-field energies were being poured towards a floored and desperate development. 1,000 flats in an area where 200 is the maximum allowed! That is two years we can't get back. If the FA Cup run windfall had been used to back a very capable manager instead of wasting it on lawyers, then we may have got that extra win.

Once in the play-offs we would have received some Premier League financial help, BT revenue for televised games. This in turn attracts better players. This is the momentum we need to build, on the pitch. If we need money to develop Kingfield then we need a good team and a cup run, all of the club's successes have been built on the back of good cup runs.
Dual meditates,
Non habetis argentum.

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Nonsense Potter » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:00 am

I think you’ll find it is a witch hunt Jon. You’re the only person who repeatedly complains about Jon Davies, often completely out of the blue. If you’re blaming Paul for the sale of the tennis centre as well, without understanding what went on, you’re just extending the witch hunt and you’re being incredibly out of order.

As someone who attended the EGM at the time, the club basically had no money, increasing financial worries and had put forward this proposal to stay in business. Selling that land wasn’t ideal - but - the club had already signed a lease for that land that was well below the market rate, for an exceptionally long time. IIRC we made more money from letting one of the mobile phone networks put an aerial on the LGS than we did from the leasing of that land.

So, as you’re so full of knowledge, what would you have done? You’re not far from going out of business (which wasn’t just because we appointed McGovern btw), you’re tied into a lease for a very long time (which brings in peanuts and wasn’t arranged by either of these gentlemen) and the council offer you an option of staying in business, with a longer term commitment that you’ll benefit from the use of the land at a later date? What are the options Jon? You’ve mentioned adding a park and ride on the land. Would that bring in the money? (It wouldn’t btw - just try and do some simple sums, please)

I’m all ears for your plan, although I’m pretty sure it will either be non existent or it’ll rely on a creative view of what happened twenty years ago.
Scorer of possibly the greatest goal in the history of the Woking FC Supporters' team

jonwoozley
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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by jonwoozley » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:38 am

Nonsense Potter wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:00 am
I think you’ll find it is a witch hunt Jon. You’re the only person who repeatedly complains about Jon Davies, often completely out of the blue. If you’re blaming Paul for the sale of the tennis centre as well, without understanding what went on, you’re just extending the witch hunt and you’re being incredibly out of order.

As someone who attended the EGM at the time, the club basically had no money, increasing financial worries and had put forward this proposal to stay in business. Selling that land wasn’t ideal - but - the club had already signed a lease for that land that was well below the market rate, for an exceptionally long time. IIRC we made more money from letting one of the mobile phone networks put an aerial on the LGS than we did from the leasing of that land.

So, as you’re so full of knowledge, what would you have done? You’re not far from going out of business (which wasn’t just because we appointed McGovern btw), you’re tied into a lease for a very long time (which brings in peanuts and wasn’t arranged by either of these gentlemen) and the council offer you an option of staying in business, with a longer term commitment that you’ll benefit from the use of the land at a later date? What are the options Jon? You’ve mentioned adding a park and ride on the land. Would that bring in the money? (It wouldn’t btw - just try and do some simple sums, please)

I’m all ears for your plan, although I’m pretty sure it will either be non existent or it’ll rely on a creative view of what happened twenty years ago.
Didn't the David Lloyd lease have less than 40 years left? As soon as it was sold a new lease was negotiated? New leases bring the freeholder a windfall.
Who was it who negotiated a number of new player contracts after BFG left that we couldn't afford?
Who gave McGovern an improved contract in Feb after being knocked out of both major cups without scoring?
These decisions in 97 led to the situation where everything had to be sold.
If I have trouble paying my mortgage, i don't go out and buy an expensive car.
Dual meditates,
Non habetis argentum.

wokingsteve
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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by wokingsteve » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:01 am

jonwoozley wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:32 pm
Nonsense Potter wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:49 pm
I’d rather he did. He’s had an issue (that he doesn’t understand) with Jon Davies for years, but naming Paul Elmer (who I personally think has given up more time as a volunteer for the club than anyone I can think of, over a huge number of years) is just out of order.
That is fair comment. There is no doubt that everyone who has given their time and money to the club deserves some respect and had good intentions. What I question is their ability to make the correct choices. I will give it some context in quotes:


“The club is required to make a total capital contribution of £100,000 towards the works and has a period of seven years from 1st January 1996 in which so to do.” “the club has granted a Charge over the ground to the Council. Should the Club default in respect of the agreed terms, then circumstances may arise in consequence of which the freehold of the ground would be transferred to Woking Borough Council.”
Jon Davies, Vice Chairman, February 1996

“Last year’s budget was fixed on a break-even gate attendance of 3,100, but the average league gate is only around 2,500 – 2,600.”
Terry Molloy, Vice-Chairman, April 1997

“I [John McGovern] was out of work! There was a manager’s job here, so I applied for it. … I decided to accept the post, but I was still surprised to get it!” Non-League Monthly, August 1997

“The acid test is the Conference performances. We’re not interested in cups, it’s the league performances I’m interested in”
John McGovern, Manager, Non-League Monthly, October 1997

“I have agreed a new two-year contract with the club … I am determined to repay this show of loyalty by producing a winning side that we can be proud of.” John McGovern, Manager, February 1998

“As you all know, John McGovern no longer has a managerial role at the club. Jon Davies, Chairman, September 1998

“Other duties relate to the management of the club’s investments which include the sites of the Chris Lane Tennis Club, the Woking Gym Club and the Woking Snooker Centre. At the top of my list of further improvements to Kingfield is the completion of Phase Two of the planned redevelopment. If there is anyone with a few million to donate to the project please let me know.” Paul Elmer, Property Director, August 1998

“In the year ending 31st May 1997 the turnover here at Woking was in the region of £1.3 million. As we all know we enjoyed a good run in the FA Cup and won the FA Trophy. Last year, with no successes in the two major cup competitions, our turnover fell to £80,000. A drop of half a million pounds in spite of the fact that our attendances were actually up on the season before.”
“Phase II, under the terms of the agreement with the council, cannot go ahead until we achieve Football League status” Bill Sutton, Finance Director, September 1998

“I wouldn’t say our financial situation is particularly brilliant, but we are okay. But we do rely too much on gate receipts.” “we need to generate funds off the pitch. We need to increase that side of it, especially the commercial activities and fundraising” John Taylor, Chairman, November 1999

“at last Wednesday night’s EGM at Woking FC shareholders gave the go-ahead for the sale of freehold land next to Kingfield Stadium to Woking Borough Council. … the Council will buy the freehold land currently occupied by the Chris Lane Leisure Club”
“There will be an initial sum of £200,000 up front followed by a further sum, … That amount will depend on negotiations between the Council and Chris Lane over the extension of the current lease – which presently has 45 years to run. It is understood that this second tranche of money will be around £200,000.”
“Property Director Paul Elmer was said to have introduced the motion on the club’s freehold” Clive Youlton, Journalist, March 2000

“The sale of the freehold of the Chris Lane Tennis Club to Woking Borough Council was completed on Monday 20th March and negotiations between the Council and Chris Lane (Grasspost Ltd) in respect of a possible extension of the lease will commence shortly.”
Paul Elmer, Property Director, March 2000

“I think everyone believed it was a good deal and the only way forward. What is important is we learn the lessons of the past two years” John Taylor, Chairman, March 2000


This is not a witch-hunt, it is highlghting mistakes so that they are not repeated. I have seen this club slowly build from a village team that could barely beat Westfield, to become the best team in non-league football.
I then saw that dismantled with some very stupid, naive and desperate decisions. We will never get that chance again, we are punching at our maximum now.

What worries me now is that the club was one win away from the play-offs on the pitch - while all off-field energies were being poured towards a floored and desperate development. 1,000 flats in an area where 200 is the maximum allowed! That is two years we can't get back. If the FA Cup run windfall had been used to back a very capable manager instead of wasting it on lawyers, then we may have got that extra win.

Once in the play-offs we would have received some Premier League financial help, BT revenue for televised games. This in turn attracts better players. This is the momentum we need to build, on the pitch. If we need money to develop Kingfield then we need a good team and a cup run, all of the club's successes have been built on the back of good cup runs.
Wow my brain hurts.

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by AndyT » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:03 am

jonwoozley wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:38 am
Nonsense Potter wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:00 am
I think you’ll find it is a witch hunt Jon. You’re the only person who repeatedly complains about Jon Davies, often completely out of the blue. If you’re blaming Paul for the sale of the tennis centre as well, without understanding what went on, you’re just extending the witch hunt and you’re being incredibly out of order.

As someone who attended the EGM at the time, the club basically had no money, increasing financial worries and had put forward this proposal to stay in business. Selling that land wasn’t ideal - but - the club had already signed a lease for that land that was well below the market rate, for an exceptionally long time. IIRC we made more money from letting one of the mobile phone networks put an aerial on the LGS than we did from the leasing of that land.

So, as you’re so full of knowledge, what would you have done? You’re not far from going out of business (which wasn’t just because we appointed McGovern btw), you’re tied into a lease for a very long time (which brings in peanuts and wasn’t arranged by either of these gentlemen) and the council offer you an option of staying in business, with a longer term commitment that you’ll benefit from the use of the land at a later date? What are the options Jon? You’ve mentioned adding a park and ride on the land. Would that bring in the money? (It wouldn’t btw - just try and do some simple sums, please)

I’m all ears for your plan, although I’m pretty sure it will either be non existent or it’ll rely on a creative view of what happened twenty years ago.
Didn't the David Lloyd lease have less than 40 years left? As soon as it was sold a new lease was negotiated? New leases bring the freeholder a windfall.
Who was it who negotiated a number of new player contracts after BFG left that we couldn't afford?
Who gave McGovern an improved contract in Feb after being knocked out of both major cups without scoring?
These decisions in 97 led to the situation where everything had to be sold.
If I have trouble paying my mortgage, i don't go out and buy an expensive car.
Jon,

It wasn't just the decisions made in '97 that led to the situation you describe. Ultimately the debt WFC had was built up for several years before 1997 and ultimately become unmanageable that led to the club having to make drastic decisions at the turn of the millennium to ensure the club survived. Don't be that blinkered to blame everything that happened happened after 1997 because that's not the case.

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by cardtrick » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:04 am

We are talking 23 years ago... let’s get one thing straight Paul Elmer has been a fantastic servant of this club and his name associated in this thread is disgraceful; no ifs or buts! Jon Davies still attends, is a great guy, loves the club and is Woking club and town through and through. Any mistakes made have been well and truly repaid.

Chris Ingram made mistakes, as did Peter Jordan I’m sure, I am also sure the current Board have as well. The late 1970’s bunch got close to Wembley glory but almost bankrupt the club

It’s 2020 and we are not Salisbury, Grays or Rushden; we played Watford last year and are still in touch in the NLP .... a league with Notts County and Wrexham while York and funded Fylde are struggling

Just perspective but leave Paul Elmer out of it.

We are Woking!

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by jonwoozley » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:42 pm

Good luck to whoever takes on the role. We've certainly got a great bunch at the club now.
Dual meditates,
Non habetis argentum.

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Red and White Army » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:14 pm

What worries me now is that the club was one win away from the play-offs on the pitch - while all off-field energies were being poured towards a floored and desperate development. 1,000 flats in an area where 200 is the maximum allowed! That is two years we can't get back. If the FA Cup run windfall had been used to back a very capable manager instead of wasting it on lawyers, then we may have got that extra win.

Once in the play-offs we would have received some Premier League financial help, BT revenue for televised games. This in turn attracts better players. This is the momentum we need to build, on the pitch. If we need money to develop Kingfield then we need a good team and a cup run, all of the club's successes have been built on the back of good cup runs.


What would have been your plan if we had spunked a load more money to get one more win but, as would have been very likely, lost in the playoffs?

How many better players would be able to attract with the 'BT revenue' would we have got for losing to Boreham Wood away in the 'eliminator'?

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by rosemaryj » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:42 pm

Just a comment here, why is it assumed that the club paid for lawyers during the development process? It might have been that the lawyer appointed to act on behalf of the board was not paid for by the club? It is correct that your volunteer board members spent many hours to try and move the club forward and the planning decision was lost - now we move on and work on achieving Dowse's dream (and ours) of promotion.

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Nonsense Potter » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:30 pm

It’s a massive shame that Rosemary has had to come on here and make it clear that another of Jon’s claims are false. It’s also a shame that he doesn’t have the class to apologise for a number of misplaced claims about one of the club’s most valuable volunteers.

Aside from volunteering in the programme shop (30+ yrs ago), which generated next to no benefit for the club, I’m genuinely interested in how he’s elevated himself to a position where he can judge those that have been integral in the club’s success, survival and growth. I gather he gave up supporting the club for a few years too - which coincided with us not winning as often. Fortunately those who he criticises weren’t so fickle. That’s why we have a club today. You’d like to think that twats like him would shut up, but this is clearly unreasonable in his eyes.

As he said earlier, despite all the evidence, this isn’t a witch hunt.
Scorer of possibly the greatest goal in the history of the Woking FC Supporters' team

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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by Insider » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:05 am

Nonsense Potter wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:30 pm
It’s a massive shame that Rosemary has had to come on here and make it clear that another of Jon’s claims are false. It’s also a shame that he doesn’t have the class to apologise for a number of misplaced claims about one of the club’s most valuable volunteers.

Aside from volunteering in the programme shop (30+ yrs ago), which generated next to no benefit for the club, I’m genuinely interested in how he’s elevated himself to a position where he can judge those that have been integral in the club’s success, survival and growth. I gather he gave up supporting the club for a few years too - which coincided with us not winning as often. Fortunately those who he criticises weren’t so fickle. That’s why we have a club today. You’d like to think that twats like him would shut up, but this is clearly unreasonable in his eyes.

As he said earlier, despite all the evidence, this isn’t a witch hunt.
[/quote

Any time during the week if you walk into the football club Paul is invariably there doing some sort of work,,,you couldnt ever question his loyalty or devotion to the football club

jonwoozley
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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by jonwoozley » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:04 am

Nonsense Potter wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:30 pm
It’s a massive shame that Rosemary has had to come on here and make it clear that another of Jon’s claims are false. It’s also a shame that he doesn’t have the class to apologise for a number of misplaced claims about one of the club’s most valuable volunteers.

Aside from volunteering in the programme shop (30+ yrs ago), which generated next to no benefit for the club, I’m genuinely interested in how he’s elevated himself to a position where he can judge those that have been integral in the club’s success, survival and growth. I gather he gave up supporting the club for a few years too - which coincided with us not winning as often. Fortunately those who he criticises weren’t so fickle. That’s why we have a club today. You’d like to think that twats like him would shut up, but this is clearly unreasonable in his eyes.

As he said earlier, despite all the evidence, this isn’t a witch hunt.
Ok, I'm big enough to apologise. Sorry for any offense I'm sure you had the club's best intentions at heart.
The thing I don't like about this forum is that too many people are anonymous, I don't even know who I'm talking to. If I did I'd buy you a pint. You seem to know a lot about me.
You're right, I moved away to Leeds and was more interested in how many STD's I could pick up for a few years. Then moved to Bristol and became a parent.
Dual meditates,
Non habetis argentum.

top of the C
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Re: Financial Controller opportunity

Post by top of the C » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:09 am

jonwoozley wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:04 am
Ok, I'm big enough to apologise. Sorry for any offense I'm sure you had the club's best intentions at heart.
The thing I don't like about this forum is that too many people are anonymous, I don't even know who I'm talking to. If I did I'd buy you a pint. You seem to know a lot about me.
You're right, I moved away to Leeds and was more interested in how many STD's I could pick up for a few years. Then moved to Bristol and became a parent.
[/quote]

that's a pretty thin apology given your statements above.
it would be good if you could actually spend as much time on the apology as on the slagging off in the first place.

by the by, we were trying to survive as a members club around the time you're talking, when almost every other club had changed to have one (or very few) owners/chairmen - that model had to change, and those taking the decisions from then onwards had a very difficult job to do. of course there were some mistakes, but, at the time the decisions were taken, they were well thought through and honestly made. looking back is easy - as is picking on people who had the club's best interest at heart.


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