Loan Roulette

JAM
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 13 times

Loan Roulette

Post by JAM » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:22 pm

There has been a huge amount of talk over the last few months about 'loan roulette', so I thought I would look at who we have on loan currently

I think we have 7 players on loan, them being Allassani, Bradbury, Cadogan, Diarra, Ferry, Glynn and Little, although the news item on Ferry was that we had signed him (if so not sure how long for)

add them to the 3 other players that have joined since Xmas - Durojaiye, Kamara and Dunn - and that is a lot of changes in a short space of time. We also had Tarpey on loan after Xmas

going further back, we have had Edser, Eyoma, Leighton, Loza, Makoma and Taylor on loan at some stage this season.

I make that 17 players. Of those 17, apart from Edser, Loza and Little, have any of them been good enough/improved the team at the time they were here.

I do realise that without the loan system we wouldnt have much of a squad, so a club like ours has to delve into the loan market during the season, esp when injuries occur. However, to get a player on loan from Salford (Glynn), play him 1 week, put him on the bench the next game, and then not be in the squad since because we have too many loan players already in the squad, seems slightly strange to me.

Red and White Army
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Red and White Army » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:27 pm

Ferry isn’t on loan so we have 6. I imagine if Hyde is fit, Bradbury drops out of the squad and Glynn comes in. We’ve got a lot of midfielders though with Kane and Jolley as well.

JAM
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by JAM » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:42 pm

As I said I wasn't sure on Ferry and his contract, as the notice wasn't that clear when we got him. If we have signed him, how long for.

I agree with the midfielders, though Kane is obviously massively short of match fitness, and there has been no news on Jolley.

I also heard Dowse say that he was thinking of bringing DOA and Young back for the Play offs. If he is thinking of bringing DOA back, what does that say about Bradbury. I also think that this has been highlighted due to the loan signing of Diarra. Since he joined, we have kept 1 clean sheet, and only won 2 in 8. I am in no way suggesting that that is all down to him, but the constant changing of the team surely hasn't helped

Lurker
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 9:04 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Lurker » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 pm

I agree that we've used too many players and the constant chopping and changing doesn't help - especially when one or two players seem to have been frozen out for what can only be non-footballing reasons.

Having said that, we'd be closer to mid-table than the top were it not for the contributions of the more successful loan signings this season.

Red and White Army
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Red and White Army » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:13 pm

Lurker wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 pm
I agree that we've used too many players and the constant chopping and changing doesn't help - especially when one or two players seem to have been frozen out for what can only be non-footballing reasons.

Having said that, we'd be closer to mid-table than the top were it not for the contributions of the more successful loan signings this season.
Who do you think has been frozen out because of non-footballing reasons?

Better Red
Posts: 677
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:53 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Better Red » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:16 pm

Lurker wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 pm
we'd be closer to mid-table than the top were it not for the contributions of the more successful loan signings this season.
...and that surely is the point, as the dust settles on the season as a whole.

On the basis that you can only 'borrow' those that are available (for whatever reason), we might consider ourselves fortunate to have been able to watch the likes of Edser, Loza, and Tarpey in Woking shirts. Little has been immense at times also. The others have possibly had less impact but all have played a part.

As it stands we are Step 6 and part-time. Even here we have had the likes of Torquay and Billericay to contend with. Let's hope that we can have a more settled pre-season than the last, and find a squad that will improve as we go through next season.

Kingfield Ender
Posts: 3789
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:48 am
Has thanked: 423 times
Been thanked: 355 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Kingfield Ender » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:25 pm

'Who do you think has been frozen out because of non-footballing reasons?'

Spence, as he's a non-footballer
Still Plugging away in the absence of the great one

Lurker
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 9:04 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Lurker » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:27 pm

Red and White Army wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:13 pm
Lurker wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 pm
I agree that we've used too many players and the constant chopping and changing doesn't help - especially when one or two players seem to have been frozen out for what can only be non-footballing reasons.

Having said that, we'd be closer to mid-table than the top were it not for the contributions of the more successful loan signings this season.
Who do you think has been frozen out because of non-footballing reasons?
I would say that Reggie Young started the season really well and looked full of promise before suddenly disappearing on loan for the entire season. I'd certainly rather have seen him here for the duration rather than Wheeler, who we've sometimes introduced when we're chasing a game. And Ian Gayle has done well whenever called upon, is more versatile and has more pace than his fellow centre-backs.

I'm also a little bit surprised that Hester-Cook has been used so sparingly after doing a good job for us in centre-mid.

JAM
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by JAM » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:28 pm

BR - as I said in my opening, I realise that we have to use the loan market, but if only 4 players have been good enough (the 4 that you mention, and Tarpey was only for a short time) maybe the use of it has stopped use potentially winning the league, and maybe even going up, as the form is not that great.

Momentum is key, and at this precise moment we haven't got it, and coupled with the fact that our results over the other PO teams isn't great either.

This is a big summer for Dowse to try and get his side together for whatever league we are in. If we go up, superb, if we don't, its been a good season, but it could have been so much better

Chobham Card
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:53 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Chobham Card » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:37 pm

JAM wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:22 pm
There has been a huge amount of talk over the last few months about 'loan roulette', so I thought I would look at who we have on loan currently

I think we have 7 players on loan, them being Allassani, Bradbury, Cadogan, Diarra, Ferry, Glynn and Little, although the news item on Ferry was that we had signed him (if so not sure how long for)

add them to the 3 other players that have joined since Xmas - Durojaiye, Kamara and Dunn - and that is a lot of changes in a short space of time. We also had Tarpey on loan after Xmas

going further back, we have had Edser, Eyoma, Leighton, Loza, Makoma and Taylor on loan at some stage this season.

I make that 17 players. Of those 17, apart from Edser, Loza and Little, have any of them been good enough/improved the team at the time they were here.

I do realise that without the loan system we wouldnt have much of a squad, so a club like ours has to delve into the loan market during the season, esp when injuries occur. However, to get a player on loan from Salford (Glynn), play him 1 week, put him on the bench the next game, and then not be in the squad since because we have too many loan players already in the squad, seems slightly strange to me.
I think there's a lot of nuance being missed here. The majority of these players were brought in either to temporarily cover gaps, or to give the squad some depth where it was lacking - we haven't tried to bring in 17 first team players for the season.

Firstly the stopgaps: Eyoma, Leighton and Taylor were all one-month loans to cover for Edser, Bradbury and Little when they'd returned to their parent clubs and we were waiting on a deal. We didn't (with the exception of Maidstone) lose any of the games they played.

You've then got loans to provide depth that didn't have a chance to disrupt performances. Glynn seems to have been cover for an unfit Ferdinand, and Makoma was a short-term deal to plug a midfield struggling for depth and was still binned within a fortnight.

I'd then argue that Edser, Loza, Little, Tarpey, and Cadogan have all come in and made a marked positive impact. So the only loanees who are seriously questioned are Bradbury, Diarra, and Allassani.
Lurker wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:27 pm
I would say that Reggie Young started the season really well and looked full of promise before suddenly disappearing on loan for the entire season. I'd certainly rather have seen him here for the duration rather than Wheeler, who we've sometimes introduced when we're chasing a game. And Ian Gayle has done well whenever called upon, is more versatile and has more pace than his fellow centre-backs.

I'm also a little bit surprised that Hester-Cook has been used so sparingly after doing a good job for us in centre-mid.
The romantic in me is certain that Reggie will be brought back and nick an extra-time breakaway goal in the playoff final. Don't ask me why. It's an interesting idea that his agent might have contributed to him being loaned out rather than kept (remember that nonce who would only post to talk about him back in the autumn?) Agreed he'd make more impact than Wheeler.

I may be a little simplistic here, but for all the good work I do think Gayle has done, he's kept three clean sheets in the league all season. Two of them were against East Thurrock.

CHC has been kept out on loan as he's not disciplined enough defensively according to a few catchups - too many bookings.

Kingfield Ender
Posts: 3789
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:48 am
Has thanked: 423 times
Been thanked: 355 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Kingfield Ender » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:42 pm

Massive summer either way for Dowson

If we don't go up then he'll be looking at the players he wants for a more sustained tilt at the league (Made harder by the new arrivals at either end of the division)

If we go up he'll be looking for pretty much 2/3rds of a new squad anyway !

Some of this seasons top ten may well find themselves pushed further down the league next season
Still Plugging away in the absence of the great one

KT15 Card
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:52 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by KT15 Card » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:46 pm

Farnborough and Whitehawk will have finished their season by the time of the semi-final, so I guess having DOA and Reggie back are more about having options than replacing people.

Red and White Army
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Red and White Army » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:53 pm

Kingfield Ender wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:42 pm
Massive summer either way for Dowson

If we don't go up then he'll be looking at the players he wants for a more sustained tilt at the league (Made harder by the new arrivals at either end of the division)

If we go up he'll be looking for pretty much 2/3rds of a new squad anyway !

Some of this seasons top ten may well find themselves pushed further down the league next season
Won't he be looking for 2/3rds of a new squad even if we don't go up? I'm guessing we'll only keep Ross, Casey, Cook, Collier, Hodges, Max and Luer.

Kingfield Ender
Posts: 3789
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:48 am
Has thanked: 423 times
Been thanked: 355 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Kingfield Ender » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:57 pm

Possibly.

If that's the case lets hope he nails them down fairly quickly. In the unlikely event of our Hampshire neighbours making the sensible decision to go part time we'd be competing with them for players
Still Plugging away in the absence of the great one

Red and White Army
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Red and White Army » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:03 pm

Hopefully they'll stay full time with the Wadfather.

Chobham Card
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:53 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Chobham Card » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:08 pm

Won't Jolley be staying as one of Dowse's trusted liuetenants? Ferdinand too - a good player for this level when he's actually playing, and the club (and Dowse) helped pay for his surgery?

JAM
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by JAM » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:12 pm

If we go up Casey wont be with us next season. If we do go up I would hope that we keep Little, as Dowse suggested in his catch up last week, and would love Forest to say to us 'there u go, Toby needs some game time, have him for a season' although that may be very wishful thinking

CC were you trying to convince us in your earlier post that Diarra is better than Gayle.

KT15 Card
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:52 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by KT15 Card » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:19 pm

Chobham Card wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:08 pm
Won't Jolley be staying as one of Dowse's trusted liuetenants? Ferdinand too - a good player for this level when he's actually playing, and the club (and Dowse) helped pay for his surgery?
Maybe he'll do a Rendell and crawl across the border

Chobham Card
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:53 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Chobham Card » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:57 pm

JAM wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:12 pm
CC were you trying to convince us in your earlier post that Diarra is better than Gayle.
I think so. Certainly more of an aerial threat, obviously offers more physicality, more range in the tackle and we do benefit from two center-backs who prefer different feet in terms of distribution out from the back. Expectations are just higher of Diarra - Gayle is very solid backup wheras Diarra has been a shaky starter so far.

JAM
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by JAM » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:04 pm

Football supporters in a nutshell, everyone has a different opinion

a shaky starter? he has had 6 games and in my opinion not looked comfortable in any of them
more aerial threat? I think the 2 headers at goal in the 1st half on Saturday were the 1st 2 headers I have seen him win in either box at set pieces
distribution out from the back? I am not expecting Diarra to be doing that, and in fact of all the CBs we have Cook looks more suited to that than the rest.

Chobham Card
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:53 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Chobham Card » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:23 pm

They do, and Gayle might come back in next week and play a blinder to shut me up!

I think he's had uncomfortable periods, but good ones too - he worked very hard and I think played well against Torquay for example, but goes sailing over the ball for the third. Away days like Welling, where he was crap basically the entire time, have compounded that. But like you say, six games isn't a long time either.

Definitely disagree on the second point. He should've scored at Bath, should've scored on Saturday (it's not a foul), against Hungerford (where he creates the goal in part), I think against Hemel or Chippenham? From what I've seen he's won loads of headers in great positions - he's just also missed them all in one way or another. He also wins a lot of headers at the back, although so do Cook and Gerring.

It's not about picking passes per se - I mean more in terms of direction and distance. When Cooky was played on the left hand side of central defence, he could get penned in behind Casey if someone chased him down. If he's left footed he can be trusted to punt it up the line and to safety, but that's much harder to do on your weak foot. Diarra has been better at avoiding the trouble that Jack could sometimes invite.

JAM
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:01 am
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by JAM » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:32 pm

in which case we will agree to disagree on his performances. And to say he should have scored here and he should have scored there doesn't help, although the 1 thing I will agree with is that it wasn't a foul on Saturday (have said that in the highlights thread) but it didn't matter as he hit the bar anyway.

This thread seems to have become all about Diarra, mainly because, imo, he is the latest of loanees that hasn't worked, and there have been a number of them this year, more so than those that have worked

Spitfire MH434
Posts: 455
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:44 am
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Spitfire MH434 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:36 pm

It’s interesting to see who people think may and may not stay IF we go up. There’s a lot of commitment in the travel to go ‘up north’ from players who may well have very well paid full time jobs and be of an age where family ties and a sudden change in Saturday’s are not doable.
I think the worry, for me, is that we may end up playing a bigger version of loan roulette the first year of any promotion (if fortunate enough). Does Dowse and Co have their ear to the ground of what players are available?

It’ll be another rebuilding job either way.

Meerkat
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:14 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 101 times

Re: Loan Roulette

Post by Meerkat » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:15 pm

Bradbury is getting released by Oxford so when would they stop paying him and leave us to pick up the tab? I assume we don’t currently pay his whole wages (I hope not!)


Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Cardinal96, Google [Bot], Lars Muller and 15 guests

Cardboard

Cardsboard.co.uk is not an official message board of Woking Football Club or The Cards Trust, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Please be warned that some posts will contain swear words.

Vanarama National League South Club Forums: Bath City | Billericay Town | Chelmsford City | Chippenham Town | Dartford | Dulwich Hamlet | Eastbourne Borough | Gloucester City | Hampton & Richmond | Hemel Hempstead Town | Oxford City | St Albans City | Torquay United | Wealdstone | Welling United

Vanarama National League Club Forums: Aldershot Town | Barnet | Barrow | Braintree Town | Bromley | Chesterfield | Dagenham & Redbridge | Dover Athletic | Eastleigh | Ebbsfleet United | FC Halifax Town | Gateshead | Harrogate Town | Hartlepool United | Havant & Waterlooville | Leyton Orient | Maidenhead United | Maidstone United | Salford City | Solihull Moors | Sutton United | Wrexham

Unofficial League Forums: The Conference Forum | National League South Forum

Other Links: Cards Trust - Boost the Budget | wokingfc.co.uk | Surrey Advertiser | Woking News and Mail | Woking FC Official Photo Gallery | BBC Sport - Woking | BBC Football Commentaries